so after emailing AJ & Ketron asking for sysex messages to be able to access all of AUDYA 4/5's functions externally via controller...

i get an email with this .pdf from AJ

thank you AJ/Ketron for your excellent customer assistance

so i thought i'd share it with all my fellow synthzoners (with AJ's permission of course)

so here it is: http://www.box.net/shared/esr62ilaxi

Lee,
Looked it over...seems pretty complete...I think your good to go.
Just need a controller that will provide programming ability for all of the physical controls to send correct sysex.

Good support from Ketron!

I am anxious to see how this works out.

Lee S.

can someone who knows a little sysex,
please verify one thing...
with this AUDYA pdf document...

say i want to choose the "BREAK" function of the AUDYA4, with an external controller

i guess i'd goto page 3 of this sysex pdf document (for AUDYA),

and send these 2 sysex codes consecutively from my controller to my AUDYA4: ???

F0 26H 7CH 03H 6ch 7FH F7H
F0 26H 7CH 03H 6ch 00H F7H

is this correct?

so i need to send 2 consecutive sysex codes
as i need one for "button pressed",
and another for button "released" ???

thanks in advance...

Lee,
Looking at the pdf it sure seems that way.
That is what I would try...with my Korg you just send the button on.
Lee S.

leeboy,

you think with ketron A4/novation controller we have to send button pressed AND released ?

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-16-2010).]

perhaps my buttons on Novation need to be in "Momentary" Mode

"...In 'Momentary' mode one value is sent when the button is pressed, and a second value is sent when it's released."

Yes, that sounds like a plan.
The novation is prety sweet!
Lee S.

it's sweet does a lot, pretty complicated,
but will it do what i want it to do?

i have put a call into novation tech,

yes Diki, i will make sure BEFORE i buy

duh,

actually i will try on my Zero XL (original)

if it works there, it should also on the XL MK2's...

anyone know how to go about inputting these strings of numbers,
i did read manual, but i tell you,
it's not easy, and does not get in detail on this

Lee,
Install the PC based editor and go from there...much easier than doing it on the device. It allows you to setup a template & download it to the novation.

There will be a learning curve.
http://www.novationmusic.com/us/support/remote_zero_sl

Lee S.

It's LEE mania!!! I can't keep up with all the Lee's, LOL

So the big question was it still worth it buying the Audya 4 or do you wish you had purchased a keyboard version of the Audya?

Al

or waited to buy the TYROS 4 ????

Simple..I'm leeboy..or Lee Simmonds, in Indiana....I always sign Lee S. so we don't get confused...
Lee S.

i'm glad i bought the module,
more versatile for me

and i'm glad i did NOT wait for the Tyros4,
their drums turn me off

Lee, I'd get back in touch with Ketron... This doesn't make sense to me. It seems like you've got the Audya sys-ex implementation of what it SENDS, but the button protocol of a separate sys-ex for press and release, that doesn't really seem to be necessary just to trigger a function in the OS. Especially for something like BREAK, which is a one-time call (break only needs to be called, not stopped, too).

Personally, I'd want to take a look at the regular MIDI implementation chart, not just the sys-ex codes. I may be wrong (I hope I'm not), but most arrangers allow remote control of their style engine using simple PC#'s and CC's, which are a doddle to program, rather than sys-ex for EVERYTHING. For instance, my G70 uses PC#'s for all style related controls, Var's, Fills, Breaks, Intros, Endings, etc.. Hence, it's a snap to control externally.

I sincerely hope you have overlooked this, rather than having to use this incredibly convoluted system of sys-ex to emulate button pushes and releases of the front panel...

However, the one GOOD thing that might come of this is, if your remote has a good 'learn' feature, you MIGHT be able to hook it to the Audya module, put it into 'learn' mode, and simply press the buttons on the Audya to program the remote. But one of the issues you are going to come across is that sys-ex gets sent all in one package. So if you are playing AND doing some button pushing, you may notice a slight loss of 'feel' as played notes get held up while the sys-ex string is sent.

Try and see if you can't do this with a simple PC# or CC code first, Lee...

Wow. Just what the doctor ordered

The novation stuff is amazing
I made it work.
I have set up sysex codes for lots of stuff
Fill1234. Var1234. Tempo. Break. Start stop. Sync start intro. Everything

On novation you pick how long sysex string is
So you choose. 5. Even though Ketron has 7
this is because the first and last are constant
Next you ignore the H. They put after.
Just use hex numbers
Also. You only have to use. Button pressed codes
Ignore the release codes

And the timing is instant.
I have 8 pads set up
First for for 4 fills
Next four pads doe. Var abcd

And the pad feel is way better. You jut tap it barely and that's it. Not need to press.

I am so happy.
But I may need to spend another $599 for this 61 key novation

If anyone needs any help with this let me know
It's so cool. Controlling A4 from afar.

Now. Jut need to figure out if and how to control volumes to assign to faders on novation. :-)

Amazing novation rocks. Kane I should sell my akai and my maudio axiom controllers. As they don't have the bells and whistles.

Thanks AJ
For hooking me up with those sysex codes
Tell Ketron to put on website
And make it part of the manual

Now how to control volume of 9 mixer parts?
I see volume for drawbars. But this is only when in drawbar mode.... Hhhmmmm.

Sorry for misspellings on previous.
It's the iPhones fault.

AJ

I did not see sysex codes for the 16 new tabs in A4/5

Can you get those to me?

Lee, those volume Parts ought to be simple MIDI volume on the MIDI channel they are on. Same for reverb, chorus, etc..

I warn you, don't get into using sys-ex for those if you can possibly avoid it! It's one thing to send a simple sys-ex code for a switch, it's another thing altogether to get it to send a variable that is moving a lot (like you messing with a slider while you play) as the entire sys-ex string needs sending for each and every new value of the slider. That's a LOT of data!

BTW, if any of the switches doubles as an edit page call up (for instance, on my G70, you briefly press the Hold button, the Hold parameter engages... but you press and HOLD the 'Hold' button, the edit page for the Hold parameter comes up), you might want to go ahead and program that switch 'off' parameter, too.

ok Diki

so it seems sysex for all button presses,
simple 5-7 string sysex

and then simple volume on midi channel,

back to manual...

now i need sysex for the new 16 tab buttons,

man, soon i will have my AUDYA4, hands free, with buttons assigned how I WANT

the pdf i posted i think is ONLY for original AUDYA,

any news AJ on these 16 "missing" sysex codes?

Lee,
This is great news...I love this kind of stuff. I've done a lot of it too and it's fun.. Congrats! Good work!

Now..if only a board like a Korg PA2XPRO, T4, G-70, etc could be programmed to send out the appropriate CC, BC/PC, Sysex from it's buttons you could have an arranger controlling an arranger. With MIDI time sync might even be able to do some combined things.

I did some initial checking on the T2 and if my memory serves...no dice. PA2 send some but not all...and they are not programmable.

Lee S.

ok,

i'm having a few issues,
as i programmed buttons "pressed" with sysex,
but it's a problem when dealing with Fills 1,2,3,4
as the buttons, stay in the "pressed" state and never release,
i know this as the fills keeps on fill mode,
and i can visually see this on LCD

how to release button with additional sysex??
seems like novation can only send one sysex string per button,

stop, play, restart seem ok

i need to send one sysex message on button pressed, and another sysex message for button released.

anyone?

update, good news

problem was i was using the pads,
pads dont know when you release them,

you must use buttons,
and put them in momentary mode
choose a sysex string of length 5, as this will give you the 7 bytes as in ketron sysex pdf
and then choose the sysex string with data type SINGLE which gives you a VARIABLE byte
you then choose the 5th byte as variable
this 5th byte is the Status byte (pressed, released)
you can set it 7F(pressed) OR 00(released), doesn't matter

and the trick is then to set your low value to 127, and high val to 0

and YES you button will press, and release via one button press

and i also have the volumes working too, via CC volume message (7)

i know this all sounds complicated,
i was determined to figure this out, and i did

feel free to email me if you guys need help

time to buy my Novation SL MKII 61 key, and start programming

Wouldn't of been easier to buy the Audya 5 ?

nope,

i program the buttons where I WANT, how i want

i dont have to lug around a big keyboard to goto practice

i can take it on a plane as a carry on

i don't touch or use or wear out buttons on A4, or bust a key on the A5

and why be like the "others" and use what's given to me?

and i'll be one of the very few with such a setup

lovin it !!!

at least YOU are enjoying it and thats all that matters.

yep i'm enjoying it, thanks

i think on those 8 pads, my fav 8 sounds,
and then just tap the pads and voila !!!

As software driven as most modern arrangers are, it is a shame that none of them let you re-map the buttons if a more practical (for you) arrangement occurs to you...

Glad you didn't have to use sys-ex for those variables, Lee!

Back in the RA90 and Sound Canvas days, I used to do a LOT of sys-ex programming. To be honest, I'm glad that most of that is unnecessary nowadays... The Roland Makeup Tools provides a nice, easy graphical interface to do a LOT of things that used to be absolute bitches to program in sys-ex in the past. Still one of my favorite features...

Diki

I did have to use sysex for those variables
The variable. Is the 5 th byte. The. Press release byte

So I use 1 sysex string of 7 fir all button presses
And use CC for all volumes.

The only thing now is.
How come m volume value does not update on my A4 when I move the slider on controller. Not big deal.
But I'd like it to.

Thanks

Next to program is the scrolling. So I can search and scroll my styles with controller knobs.

Anyone know why 4 main volumes , drums, bass, accomp, lead. Are not updating after moving novation controllers ? The volume changes but the values 0-63 on A4 stay same. A. I have midi Out of novation to in of Ketron. Would think bidirectional is not necessary.

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-19-2010).]

I'm confused... If you have to LOOK at the Audya to do scrolling, and style selection, etc., then it's GOT to be close enough that you could actually scroll on the unit itself, surely?

BTW, the button presses are single value variables... Just imagine that, if you moved a slider, for each new value that the slider hits (all 127 of them if the resolution is good enough), the remote has to send out the entire sys-ex string, again and again... Plus, of course, the actual PLAYING data gets delayed, shifted around and held up while the entire sys-ex package gets sent. You'll find it very rare that a slider's output (or knob, etc.) gets sent in sys-ex, for good reason.

I used to create mixer templates in Cubase for sending out sys-ex, and editing Sound Canvases, etc., and I ALWAYS had problems with the timing if I sent a string of data values in sys-ex (say a chorus rate parameter, or something like that) while the sequence was playing.

I STILL think that there is sufficient demand for the arranger manufacturers to get together and standardize the MIDI codes for controlling the arranger sections in different arrangers. Think how simple it would be if, when you press the button for Variation 2 on arranger A, it sent out a code that arranger B would understand and do the same thing...

No more arguing about which SINGLE arranger is the 'best'... you simply buy two or more of them, and MIDI them together and they play as one large über-arranger. The strengths of each cover up the weaknesses of the other.

Wouldn't THAT be nice?

this is not so on the AUDYA at least not for the F11-F15 buttons, the 5 buttons under LCD

i can see that the button is not in released state, as it stays "white", on LCD,
and the "FILLS" keep on going, never stop

so you have to send 2 sysex messages,
or in case of novation , use variable, 127 & 0 , so that button gets "released" message



[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-20-2010).]

yes, but how cool it will be to be ABLE to control it this way

i think i will make it all hands free

Lee,

I am working on making the SysEx available for the 16 tabs on the AUDYA 4/5.

Thanks,

AJ

THANK YOU AJ !!!

your help is GREATLY appreciated


any idea on why volume values don't update on AUDYA when externally controlled?